I will be recording a few thoughts as I ponder Libertarian Free Will (Molinism and Arminian) vs Compatibilism/Determinism (Calvinist) ...I also want to toss in some thoughts about hard-lined, scientific determinism, such as materialistic atheism/philosophical naturalism...and while I certainly do not desire "in-house" fighting among fellow Christians, I do think the discussion leads us to a better understanding of God's Word, so it should prove to be a fruitful endeavor!
...so, for the first entry, a question and a thought for those who believe in determinism...
1. How do you know that determinism is true? From an epistemological viewpoint, you could not be able to logically affirm the validity of determinism, because you would simply be determined to believe in determinism...it results in circular reasoning...it is self-defeating to try and come up with reasons for why determinism is true or how you know it to be true, because the second you invoke reasoning, you have canceled determinism...one can not be determined yet at the same time use any sense of reasoning...can a computer give you a reason for why the input leads to the output? No, it simply does what it is told, but it has no concept for why or how it works...this is how determinism works, there is no way around it...
...on the same view, I find it puzzling when someone who holds to determinism as doctrine, tries to persuade me to believe in determinism...they do not see the logical incoherence that is inherent in doing so, because it would mean, if persuaded to believe in their argument, that I CHOSE to believe in determinism...but I can not freely choose anything if I have been pre-programmed for determinism...
They could say, "well, this just means that you were determined not to believe in determinism." Then by default, if, for the sake of argument, determinism was true, this would mean I was determined to believe in free choice...but this would be another logical blunder to be pre-programmed to believe in choice because it would lead me to the option of not believing in determinism....which means I would never defend determinism as a realistic truth and thus would be self-defeating for me to be determined as a determinist who believes in free choice...
More to come on this issue, next up...Do Calvinist's have accountability groups?
Showing posts with label Arminian. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Arminian. Show all posts
Monday, August 8, 2011
Friday, July 15, 2011
Calvinism, Election, And False Love
Just read a great entry from the Wesleyan Arminian blog about Calvinism and Election. They mentioned a movie illustration from the film, When In Rome, to teach how the process of election preceding faith leads to a "false" love...a love that is merely pre-programmed instead of authentic and genuine...
Click here to read the short blog entry from the Wesleyan Arminian blog, and then take a look at the clip from the movie that I have provided here:
So you can see, these individuals may "think" they actually love Beth, but they have no way to know other wise because they have been simply "programmed" or "elected" to do so.
On the contrary, God wants those who freely choose Him. That is why in Revelation 3:20, Jesus offers us the "If-Then" option...an option that establishes the possibilities for counter-factuals and libertarian free will. He showers all of mankind with a Prevenient Grace...a grace that we must have before we can be justified and sanctified, but it is also a resistible Grace that leads to an authentic love via free will...
Allow me to summarize by quoting A.W. Tozer, who stated,
Be sure to read Tozer's excellent article, The Sovereignty of God, which demonstrates how the free-will of man does not limit God's Sovereignty...it actually Proves God's Sovereignty.
Click here to read the short blog entry from the Wesleyan Arminian blog, and then take a look at the clip from the movie that I have provided here:
So you can see, these individuals may "think" they actually love Beth, but they have no way to know other wise because they have been simply "programmed" or "elected" to do so.
On the contrary, God wants those who freely choose Him. That is why in Revelation 3:20, Jesus offers us the "If-Then" option...an option that establishes the possibilities for counter-factuals and libertarian free will. He showers all of mankind with a Prevenient Grace...a grace that we must have before we can be justified and sanctified, but it is also a resistible Grace that leads to an authentic love via free will...
Allow me to summarize by quoting A.W. Tozer, who stated,
"A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so."
Be sure to read Tozer's excellent article, The Sovereignty of God, which demonstrates how the free-will of man does not limit God's Sovereignty...it actually Proves God's Sovereignty.
Friday, January 28, 2011
Adam & Eve...Predestined To Sin?
The next few posts, I want to run some thought experiments...they deal with the issues of inconsistency in reference to our Calvinist brothers and sisters...
Not having the perspective of God Himself, I by no means claim a dogmatic declaration that my Arminian view is correct, but I want to at least put a "stone in the shoe"* of the Calvinist viewpoint, and make them think about some inconsistent doctrines they hold...I could give many examples and even point out tons of Scripture, but that will just lead to the prooftexting battle that has already gone on for centuries...so I want to take a more philosophical approach...
Calvinist will say the following: "God created Adam and Eve for a relationship with Himself, but their sin brought an end to that. God became an object of hostility to them and to us (Romans 8.7), and we all became 'objects of wrath' (Ephesians 2.3) to Him." **
Stone In The Shoe Response: If the Calvinist view is correct, then this means by default, that God predestined, and thus determined Adam and Eve to sin...God determined for the human race to be hostile towards Himself...God determined humans to be "objects of wrath."
Yet, at the same time, Calvinist will claim that God is good, loving, and perfect...which He is...but, by being good, loving, and perfect, God can not be the author of evil and sin.
Friends, how do Calvinist sleep at night? I don't see any way around this...if God is the screenwriter of determinism and predestination, then He deliberately chose Adam and Eve to sin and thus desired the human race to be separated from Himself...
Prooftext all you want, try to cherry pick your Scripture references of election (election will be discussed next) all day long, but that is simply skimming the surface instead of obtaining a deeper and more contextual understanding...
...but on the other hand, when one views Scripture as a WHOLE instead of pieces and parts, God's true character shines through...He is a God who desires***, but does not will us to love Him...thus, because of our choosing, we became objects of wrath, not because He determined it...as a result, through the incarnation, Christ becomes the Author and Perfecter of our Faith, sent on a rescue mission to redeem our incorrect choice of lust, not to cover up his predetermined plan of sin...
The next post will deal with choosing and rejecting God...What exactly does "elect" mean, and Do we have a choice in all of this?
*Greg Koukl, in his amazing book Tactics, (a MUST read for all followers of Jesus Christ) discusses this great concept of "putting a stone in their shoe." Greg is of the Reformed/Calvinist persuasion. Again, I love Calvinist, and I learn from them...I am simply trying to put a "stone in their shoe!"
**This is an excerpt from a fabulous book, The 5 Minute Theologian. Again, the author is Reformed, so it is a great book, I just happen to disagree with The Doctrine of Salvation from the inconsistent Calvinist viewpoint.
***You may claim I am prooftexting here, but I simply provide this link to show that my philosophical viewpoints are grounded in Scripture, not my own opinions.
Not having the perspective of God Himself, I by no means claim a dogmatic declaration that my Arminian view is correct, but I want to at least put a "stone in the shoe"* of the Calvinist viewpoint, and make them think about some inconsistent doctrines they hold...I could give many examples and even point out tons of Scripture, but that will just lead to the prooftexting battle that has already gone on for centuries...so I want to take a more philosophical approach...
Calvinist will say the following: "God created Adam and Eve for a relationship with Himself, but their sin brought an end to that. God became an object of hostility to them and to us (Romans 8.7), and we all became 'objects of wrath' (Ephesians 2.3) to Him." **
Stone In The Shoe Response: If the Calvinist view is correct, then this means by default, that God predestined, and thus determined Adam and Eve to sin...God determined for the human race to be hostile towards Himself...God determined humans to be "objects of wrath."
Yet, at the same time, Calvinist will claim that God is good, loving, and perfect...which He is...but, by being good, loving, and perfect, God can not be the author of evil and sin.
Friends, how do Calvinist sleep at night? I don't see any way around this...if God is the screenwriter of determinism and predestination, then He deliberately chose Adam and Eve to sin and thus desired the human race to be separated from Himself...
Prooftext all you want, try to cherry pick your Scripture references of election (election will be discussed next) all day long, but that is simply skimming the surface instead of obtaining a deeper and more contextual understanding...
...but on the other hand, when one views Scripture as a WHOLE instead of pieces and parts, God's true character shines through...He is a God who desires***, but does not will us to love Him...thus, because of our choosing, we became objects of wrath, not because He determined it...as a result, through the incarnation, Christ becomes the Author and Perfecter of our Faith, sent on a rescue mission to redeem our incorrect choice of lust, not to cover up his predetermined plan of sin...
The next post will deal with choosing and rejecting God...What exactly does "elect" mean, and Do we have a choice in all of this?
*Greg Koukl, in his amazing book Tactics, (a MUST read for all followers of Jesus Christ) discusses this great concept of "putting a stone in their shoe." Greg is of the Reformed/Calvinist persuasion. Again, I love Calvinist, and I learn from them...I am simply trying to put a "stone in their shoe!"
**This is an excerpt from a fabulous book, The 5 Minute Theologian. Again, the author is Reformed, so it is a great book, I just happen to disagree with The Doctrine of Salvation from the inconsistent Calvinist viewpoint.
***You may claim I am prooftexting here, but I simply provide this link to show that my philosophical viewpoints are grounded in Scripture, not my own opinions.
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